The campaign for the presidential nomination hit it’s nadir the day after the Tuesday primary sweep by Barack Obama. Obama’s wife, Michelle, during a Wisconsin campaign stop on behalf of her husband, said this: “Let me tell you, for the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change.”
Holy Moses, the s**t really hit the fan. Right wing blowhards swarmed like piranhas around a downer school cafeteria Chino Holstein. Brit Hume sniffed and proclaimed Mrs. Obama’s utterance was the typical non-patriotism of an “ultra-liberal”. Bill O’Reilly popped another facial vein and invoked a “lynch mob”. And those guys are the more “reasonable” of the talking goon platoon. God knows what the Coulters, Becks, Hannities, and Limbaughs were snorting. I certainly didn’t wait around to find out.
Even a couple lib callers to my show suggested Michelle would wish she’d spoken more carefully upon further deliberation. And sure enough the apology/disclaimer eventually came from the Obama camp, that, of course, the potential first lady meant that normally she is really proud to be an American, but that this time she was really, really, really proud.
To which I say “huh?”. I guess I’m really the black hearted traitor in the wood pile. I have a tough time even conceptualizing “proud American”. I guess I’ve always just thought it was a bumper sticker slogan or a trite political banality. Maybe I’ve lived through a little too many “proud American” traditions, from Selma to Saigon, from Watergate to Iran-Contra, from Rodney King to Hurricane Katrina, to believe for more than a minute that the accident of my birth within these borders requires me to choke back tears every time an Ohio astronaut orbits the earth or a California biologist develops a vaccine.
Hell, if this story lasts more than 48 hours, I’ll be almost ashamed to be an American. Let Brit Hume chew on that for a while. Hopefully, he’ll require a heimlich maneuver before he can express his righteous indignation again.
Dear Stacy,
Why do you hate America?
Comment by SHRED — Thursday, February 21, 2008 @ 4:54 am
Proud of America? I stopped being that the day this country elected that glad-handing grinning idiot Reagan president.
Actually it was pretty bad when so many of my fellow citizens voted for Nixon over McGovern in ‘72, but at least then there was still a substantial core of good folk agitating hard against our evil-doing in Vietnam.
These days we have these moron Repug “leaders”, and at the same time Americans are acting as if the Iraq war wasn’t being waged - Little effective opposition, no sacrifice, minuscule unbiased reportage, etc.
Why does America hate the world?
Meanwhile here we have McCain, who was a big player in the Keating 5 scandal that the California Repugs hyped up to bring down the great California senator Alan Cranston. How come McCain isn’t brought to task for his misdeeds? Another example of the right-wing media bias, obviously.
Comment by goodguy — Thursday, February 21, 2008 @ 9:21 am
We have so much to be proud of here in America.
I, personally, don’t want to travel outside the country right now because I’m ashamed of the mess the Bush admin. has gotten us into – and I’m not even a Dixie Chick. I have no problem telling foreigners who come here that the majority of us didn’t vote for that awful excuse for a human being in either election and that we don’t like him. As John Edwards said, we really do need to regain our standing in the world as a moral leader.
How can anyone be proud of what we’ve done to Iraq, torture, rendition, allowing spying on American citizens, and the fact that most Americans, including Fishfinger, are not even smart enough to think through the rhetoric of the right-wing conservatives? How can we be proud of bodies floating down the street in New Orleans, not to mention the great job FEMA did in housing people after the Hurricanes/levee breaks? And, how about those formaldehyde-filled trailers people are still living in?
I’m so proud that we have so many people living in poverty, and that so many children and adults don’t have medical coverage. And, let’s not forget the many homeless veterans, old people and even families. Then there are the greedy corporations who put Americans out of work by outsourcing jobs so they can make just a little bit more money – the greedy bastards - which is probably contributing to the increasing numbers of foreclosurs. There’s just too much to be proud of.
How can we be proud of letting parts of our own county burn, not once, but twice in the last five years? And although many of the people who lost their houses in the fires are conservatives, I find it interesting that people would rather let their own houses burn rather than pay a little bit more in taxes to build more fire stations and hire firefighers. Heavens, we don’t want to pay taxes!
Michelle Obama is correct in saying that she’s proud to be an American now becaue we’re waking up to the need for change. She certainly shouldn’t have apologized.
Comment by Lorelei — Thursday, February 21, 2008 @ 2:36 pm
Lorelei - Great Post - Thanks!
It was great when President Clinton was in office, especially the high competence level.
But I could still not be proud of America then. We let the Repugs control congress and the media, thwart the Clintons, and devastate our country.
Comment by goodguy — Thursday, February 21, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
Fishfinger: Just give it up, OK? Please go post on Free Republic where you’ll be in good company; your posts are a bore and insult intelligent, thoughtful conservatism (yes, such a thing exists).
BTW: The “trash” NYT story you refer accurately reflects McCain’s hypocrisy on lobbying. (And if the subject were a Democrat, would you be so outraged? No, I thought not.)
I for one don’t give a damn about whether McCain was involved with another woman; it’s the decisions and votes he’s cast in Congress — which led to policies that have NOT helped the country. And if you’re proud of all the corruption that’s welled up from that, then I pity you.
Comment by Vriendje — Thursday, February 21, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
The United States of America f$$$K it or fix. A pile of dog sh*t would be better then the bush administration; it is better then the bush administration.
So as the 19% that still support the president bush the one dumber then dog sh*t gwb enjoy your future.
I hate this country and the road it is heading down caused by president dog sh*t. So what; at least I know that you fools fail to say to bad. Watch out for the flies.
One last thing Iraq was better off with Saddam Hussein then what it is now.
I still hate what this country has turned into.
Comment by Jesse east county — Thursday, February 21, 2008 @ 8:38 pm
I’m somewhere in the middle in this whole “American pride” thing. On one hand, as a vet who spent six years in a US Navy uniform, I do feel a slight sense of patriotism at times. On the other hand Iraq is a hellhole, Bush is an embarassment to say the least, and there is a lot of ugly history in this country(slavery, Native American treatment through the civil rights conflicts to name a few). Am I proud that I served, even though “General Limbaugh”, “Colonel Hannity” and all the rest of the righty goon tough talkin chicken hawks have not? Damn right. Am I pissed that while I go to sleep in a bed tonight a few hundred thousand of my brothers in arms will curl up on sidewalks throughout the US? Also, damn right.
Comment by Justin — Thursday, February 21, 2008 @ 11:53 pm
Well said Justin!!!
—
Comment by SHRED — Friday, February 22, 2008 @ 4:13 am
Fishfinger like usual your ass is talking because your mouth knows better.
“I support all of that. To think that any President is at fault for it silly. Same goes for Katrina victims…..floating down the streets. This sort of thing has happened many times over in US History and many have died. Bush did not conger up a Hurricane and aim it at New Orleans and then sit back and laugh as the horns sprouted out of his forehead you people. You guys listen to all of the extremist crap the Spike says and swallow it right down don’t you? God you act like Bush did it on purpose…………please get a grip.”
You are such a dumb ass why were the Katrina Victims called refugees and the people affected by the wild San Diego fires called Victims?
The only constant is both tragedies is that it was not hurricane Katrina that caused the damages it was the failure of the levees and with the San Diego wild fires it was lack of resources to fight them.
Any dimwitted idiot except for fishfinger can realize that both the root causes for the extent of the severity of the disasters rest on government agencies. In both situations the government agencies knew years in advance there were inadequacies in both the levee systems and not enough fire stations let’s throw in bridge in Minnesota also ….
So keep on talking shit fishfinger we all know you really are Mark Larson.
Comment by Jesse east county — Friday, February 22, 2008 @ 9:06 am
fishey-finger; Try reading your comments over before publishing them and please try the spell check,(It makes for more cohesiv reading) if that were possible. You were asked nicely to take your crayon and scribble on some right wing web site where they might be able to understand you. I know desention makes for interesting dialogue but,Man, your two slices of bread away from making a sandwich.
Comment by knifemaster — Friday, February 22, 2008 @ 11:14 am
Hey, f.f., I have to agree with ya that the NYT article was trash, because it focussed only on a possible affair, not the real story!
The real story behind the possible-relationship-with-the-lobbyist are the favors given to the lobbyist’s telecom clients as far as proposing legislation amounting to a get-rich-quick scheme to the tune of billions of dollars for the telecom company, and letters written to the FCC by McCain on behalf of the telecom companies while on the Committee on Commerce, while accepting campaign donations from them, while accepting trips flying around in the telecom company’s private jet with the lobbyist, which he condemned when he allegedly supported campaign finance reform! A little hypocritical, don’t ya think? I wish the NY Times would do a follow-up on the true significance of the story.
http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=5270
Recent reports on McCain’s relationship to telecom lobbying focus on his noted opposition to “net neutrality” efforts aimed at preventing broadband companies using their ownership of internet “pipes” to discriminate between content providers based on profitability… click on link for full story
Comment by goodgollyThe real story behind the possible-relationship-with-the-lobbyist story are the favors given to the lobbyist's telecom clients as far as proposing legislation amounting to a get-rich-quick scheme to the tune of billions of dollars for the telecom — Friday, February 22, 2008 @ 3:02 pm
Of such non stories are campaigns made of…..remember Bush 1? THAT campaign was about who could pose in front of the biggest flag. I was at several events where putative “conservitives” marched around & around in circles, reciting the “pledge of allegiance” nitwittery over & over again. For HOURS. THAT was SUBSTANCE to the degraded repubs of the day, who have steadily gone downhill from there…..& they started thier nosedive with Ike, sad to say. While Ike went out warning of what we see today- the profit- driven M-I complex, he went IN by giving the nod to various headcases Truman tossed out o thier ears….headcases that violently overthrew the governments- first ever openly & freely elected- in Guatemala & Iran. He thwarted, for a while, the very long Indochinese fight for independance…..I got to catch that one. The smoking hells today are directly attributable to this violent stupidity. If you think torture works, ponder why France, Belgium, Germany, & Britain no longer have colonies (leaving aside Occupied Ireland)- tortue was the order of the day, on a mass scale, along with summary executions & kangaroo courts.
Goldwaters live & let live, & clearly antiimperialist notions are an anethema to these nitwits. our own stinkfish is a living exemplar of how the Republican Party has deteriorated. Who would have been dismissed as some drooling nitwit, ignored by anyvbody who can read, is now mainstream. Which is why, a few months back, I dropped my Repub registration & went DTS. You cant even trust them on the Second Amendment any more, what with the Veterans Disarmament Act, the friend of the court brief they filed in the DC firearms ownership case, & the thuggish simpleton they are putting up to head the BATF.
No, if you care about this country, removing these corrupt thugs from power is an imperative.
Unfortunately, the Dims arent much better. But people who understand the founding principles of this Republic- which leaves stinkfish out- have a better chance of taking over the Dims than the Repubs.
Thats how I see it……..
Comment by mutt — Friday, February 22, 2008 @ 6:04 pm
Just testing, Had to see if you were still comatose,you have to rattle the monkey’s cage every once in a while.
Comment by knifemaster — Saturday, February 23, 2008 @ 2:33 pm
Stacy, I enjoyed listening to you sub on the Lionel show and I’d like to add a point to the lady from Texas, she’s black, her hubby’s white, their four kids are racially mixed, and she observed that Barack Obama actually is an “African American.” My point is that I’m Swedish American — both my parents were born in Sweden — so that must make almost all Black Americans “American Americans” because their ancestry is so much more American than mine.
And, I agree with you on reciting the damned Pledge of Allegiance. I said when I was a kid without the hypocritical “under God” phrase and I choke on that phrase. I will refuse to recite the damned thing from now ow.
Thanks!
Comment by Karen Hedwig Backman — Monday, February 25, 2008 @ 8:55 am
An interesting tidbit…
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html
look for the US….
Comment by nobody special — Monday, February 25, 2008 @ 10:37 am
Yeah baby they’re workin’ you! Missed you subbing for Lionel yesterday but won’t the rest of this week!
The first time I had shame for my country I was in 3rd grade. That was when I learned what we did to the American Indians. It’s pretty much been downhill from there. I’m trying real hard to think when I had some pride in it….uh, maybe when we allowed victims of our bombing Viet Nam to come here? That’s about it.
To answer the unasked question, you bet I’m sorry I didn’t leave–but I had family here. I could have had a free (bilingual) education and ultimately enough money to move my family overseas, had only I followed my heart.
If I get to TJ without a passport, then try to reenter the US, the US won’t take me. Does anyone know what TJ will do to/with me? I’m seriously considering it, once I sell my stuff.
Comment by Kathleen — Tuesday, February 26, 2008 @ 4:25 am
Has anyone been following the Sunrise Powerlink story? Sempra Energy is trying to put a giant power-line through Anza Borrego Desert Park. You may or may not know that while SDG&E can only charge you what the Public Utilities Commission will allow for electricity and gas there is no limit on what they can charge you for capital improvements like this unneeded power-line. You the rate payers WILL pay for this destructive power-line if it is allowed to be built.
Sempra Energy will use the powerline to get power from their plants in Mexico and points east and sell it to Los Angeles and other points north.
Comment by Virginia M — Tuesday, February 26, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
After hearing some of your listener callers talk about The Shock Doctrine: the Rise of Catastrophe Capitalism by Naomi Klein, I decided to order a copy. I just finished it. So here is my take if you are interested in reading it back to your audience—as I’m too shy to say it over the phone:
Naomi Klein really comes through with this book. She connects lots of dots that no one in the main stream media has been connecting. In fact, over the years, it clearly seems that the main stream media has been sweeping too many of the dots under the rug.
The point is this: ignorance is a luxury apathetic Americans can no longer afford. Whereas, if masses of people make it a point to read this book the entire presidential campaign race would take on a different hue and tone. Today politicians are still speaking clichés to an ignorant America. Today we have a corporate lawyer called Hillary who rose through the ranks working for Walmart and now she pretends she cares about the average Joe.
No. The “real” national security problem in this country is the ignorance and political autism levels of way too many of the American people.
Awareness is everything—and yet the awareness levels of this culture are so pathetically low or mis-informed that there is probably nothing that can save this country from the right-wing fascism that is fast dominating our society like it has pretty much the rest of the world.
In fact the espionage anxiety in this country is not just about huge telecommunications companies—it is about the hundreds of private companies that are taking billions of tax payer dollars to compile data or spy on Americans. However it would not at all be surprising if telecommunication companies have not already compiled electronic profiles on every phone number in this country or every phone call recorded on massive supercomputers.
Some think that Americans are going to have to learn its lessons the hard way—that the people just don’t have the sense and awareness to learn them any other way. Maybe there are right?
Nevertheless Naomi Klein has come through with her level of effort, time, dedication and awareness. And she is good writer. Her chapters read well as the pages turn. Granted, it is hard to handle more than one chapter per evening as it is somewhat soul wrenching work, and it does reaffirm to those who have already had been connecting dots.
America needs to wake up—and big time—given the various pressures coming to bear on the human realm there is no time for the status quo the current democratic and republican parties have in mind to maintain.
And while there have been “many” important books that have come out over the years warning us about eventualities—the problems still remains that Americans, on average, are not reading nearly enough to get the kind of clue as to figure out what has really been going on and to what extent. The Shock Doctrine as lesson in how economic dogma feeds greed and power—so it is a good place to start for those who have been intellectually negligent and psychologically complaisant. The weak link has always been the awareness levels of the masses of people.
This is not about being a democrat or republican or left or right—it is about getting a clue. In fact one can make a prediction—and that is to the extent that this book too is ignored by the masses of Americans — so there correlates the last likely chance to save any kind of political freedom in this country that has already went far afield into realizing a police state that is manipulated with fear. So, if the old ladies of AARP would rather knit, and the young people of this country choose to remain non-curious enough to even entertain the idea that they might have a lot more to learn about life, and hence presume the status quo they think they know to presume—they do so at their own peril.
I for one appreciate the work Ms. Klein has made for we the people. The least we can do is to listen to what she has to say. Forget about the diatribes and chintzy jingoism of the right wing that rattles to the ignorant and fearful in respect to who and why one should feel proud.
Kattie Kerfuff
Comment by Kathy Kerkuff — Tuesday, February 26, 2008 @ 7:53 pm
In reference to Ralph Nader:
1). Nader did not loose the 2000 election—the fact remains that he brought votes to the election that would not have normally bothered come out an vote for status quo party reps.
2). Still the uninformed and misinformed will quickly buy into the rationalization that Ralph Nader has an “ego” issue—and that he is choosing to run because he is a spoiler with a personal agenda. But this willingness to think as much is because gullible Americans are themselves easily mislead with simplistic propaganda. If your audience ever bothered to go to listen to Nader speak—and if open minded—they would quickly realize that Ralph Nader has far more of a clue as to what is going on then the whining naysayers that will once again would settle for the status quo of America’s corrupt past with the major two dominant parties of the Janus coin.
3). Democrats too, by an large, are too intellectually taxed and too complaisantly confused to realize that their democratic party is corrupt and has been for a long time. The democratic machine works especially for corporate America, and then spends any extra energy kowtowing to the hysteria of right-wing Israeli fears—even at the cost of America’s real national security (is it any wonder the crybabies are wailing about Obama’s loyalty?).
4). Given the fact that the main stream media has once again stolen the election from all contenders who might have tried to make a difference—for example the war in Iraq—one can only welcome more contenders, and more potential outcomes in this race. Still everyone in the entire planet knows that most Americans are fat and torpid—but how low do we have to grovel in ignorance and lazy apathy to expect real change?
Maybe Nader will bring some truth serum to the table—and I noticed he was not afraid to criticize the Zionist right wing. So I guess he must anti-Semite too?
Comment by Johnny Walk — Tuesday, February 26, 2008 @ 8:15 pm
Stacy:
Speaking of conspiracy theories and your dismissive comments on 9-11 conspiracies the other day, I would like to add my three and half cents (inflation has affected one’s 2 cents):
1. Probably, irrespective of whether you are aware of it or not, the litmus test on whether one is even allowed to work within the main stream media (which you do) is whether one is willing to not take the 9-11 conspiracy theories seriously—that one is willing to side in this propaganda war with the dominate media agenda to continue the idea that Arabs and Muslims did this bombing within our heavily secured state? Therefore, you may just be acting against a higher awareness to protect your own job. Understandable.
2. Granted, you are a pretty astute and informed guy, with one hell of a bullshit detector; but, if you actually believe the rationalizations used to defuse the 9/11 debate offered by the propagandists—then you are a great deal more naïve than you think you are. (Granted many people choose to be mis-informed on some level.) Arthur Schopenhauer once said: “Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.” Or to put it more precisely: The essence of naiveté is that you do not aware of what it is you are not aware.
3. Way too many people presume to assume that they have readily garnered enough information to make informed decisions on various complex matters. For example many presume that if someone whispers in their ear then they automatically have been inspired by the divine (after all is that not what conspire means—to “spire” together?). Nothing could be further from the truth on some matters. Way too many people underestimate the levels of artful deceit conned up in this world and culture. If you think that it is unlikely 9-11 was some kind of inside job because no one has come forth and leaked it (assuming hundreds were in on it which is not necessary) then ask yourself to explain to your listeners where are all the media people who have leaked about “Operation Mockingbird”? Certainly Operation Mockingbird included hundreds of people in the main stream media but we do not see much of these guys coming forward about it? At least this Mockingbird conspiracy theory is one you ought at least be able to wrap around you head and get a clue as to whether there is any truth to it?
4. More importantly, if the 9/11 events actually did happen because of certain rogue elements within our government, corporate America, and Mafioso society (as well as other Western of Middle Eastern societies) then many would still refuse to acknowledge such a reality because the implications are too dire to contemplate. First off, a criminal event of this magnitude doesn’t evolve over night—there had to be many terrorist events that eventually led to this level of audacity—which means the American people have been sleeping for a long time. Which means there ain’t a whole lot of people that you can trust (most professionals too are naïve and willfully ignorant) or a whole lot of truth that you can bank on.
5. The bottom line is “never” estimate your naiveté levels, and never underestimate the level of conspiracy the powerful or cunning would consider. Even the skeptical presume to allow for more time and more information.
6. Unless you have been willing to grapple with the many ideas about 9-11 within the propaganda war and all its detractors—then you have little right to presume to know more than you do.
7. At minimum you ought to check out: DVD: Loose Change (latest edition); w.911truth.org, w.sd911truth.org; book: Synthetic Terror: Made in USA: audio at w.011synchronicity.com
8. Nothing else, do some research on the concept of “False Flag Operation” and explain to listeners what this concept is all about and how often it has been purported to have happened throughout history.
Comment by Timid Tim — Tuesday, February 26, 2008 @ 8:31 pm
Stacy,
I heard your commentary on the Drudge photo of Barack in some kind of costume, and how silly it all is.
I think you mentioned that Bush dresses up too. I think this link is absolutely hilarious, given the context of the Drudge photo and the right-wing-noise-machine…
Bush in Vietnam
I mean, did you know Bush is secretly a North Vietnamese communist!? (And isn’t that Putin next to him?!)
Comment by goodguy — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 6:58 am
Fish, that was the first thing you’ve said that I can agree with. He was a true conservative and a REAL investigative reporter.
Comment by nobody special — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 10:15 am
Hey Virginia: I’ve been following the Sunrise PowerLink story and I have lots of experience in the energy industry. I’m convinced that this is not needed and that SDG&E will bring up “dirty” electricity from their plants in Mexico, where they’re not as regulated as they are here. They’re pretending that they can use some geothermal energy and some solar too. But, I’d bet they only use the minimum they can get away with. Don’t think for one minute, however, that SDG&E & Sempra aren’t making any money despite PUC constraints. They’re loaded and they can afford to continue to push for the PowerLink. That’s why we need to continue to fight them.
What really needs to happen is for prices for solar panels to come down. Right now there are rebates available to offset the prices, but it’s still too expensive for the majority of us. And with the economy in the toilet, I don’t think many folks will be financing such large projects. Alternative forms of energy is where it’s at – we just need to figure an affordable way to get our hands on them.
Have you been able to attend any of the PUC meetings?
Thanks,
Lorelei
Comment by Virginia M — Tuesday, February 26, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
Comment by Lorelei — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 10:38 am
Arizona has really taken the lead on using solar power for commercial use. Why should we depend on the goverment to supply us. How about the places we work taking it upon them selves to feed the need.
http://www.aps.com/my_community/Solar/Solar_22.html
The photovoltaic modules are becoming more affordable and also more efficient.
Solar water heating has always been simpla and affordable. The problem we are having here in San Diego is with the neighbors complaining about it not being visually asthetic.
Comment by Lori from Mission Beach — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 11:23 am
There is also an incentive program for Solar Water Heating at: http://www.energycenter.org/ContentPage.asp?ContentID=409&SectionID=24&SectionTarget=409
Comment by Lorelei — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 11:43 am
The recent power outage in Florida was caused by over dependence on imported power via the grid. Until such time as we can get more solar power our best choice for San Diego is modern natural gas generators such as the one used to power UCSD. We need decentralized power generation to protect reliability. Look at the Internet. Why was it developed the way it was? It was developed to protect our countries computer network by decentralizing it. That is exactly what we need with power generation.
A large power-line for imported power generates more revenue for Sempra since they are allowed to pass the costs on to the rate payer. Above-ground powerlines caused the recent fires in San Diego. Anza Borrego is earthquake prone (besides being a place of natural beauty known the world over and designated as a state park.
Reliability is served by decentralization and by local generation. Advances in solar power ARE coming. THis is not time to waste billions of dollars (which WILL be paid by the rate payers) on old technology.
Comment by Virginia M — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 12:37 pm
I thought by now most people were aware that the power shortages California experienced in 2000 were MANIPULATED by out of state energy providers including ENRON. How can people’s memories be so short?
Comment by Virginia M — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 12:44 pm
The rate charged per kilowatt of power is regulated by the CPUC. The costs of power transmission are passed directly to the customer. If you are local YOU will pay for these lines which will then be used to transmit power to Los Angeles and other points north.
Comment by Virginia M — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 12:48 pm
Fish, two things need to be considered when talking about hydro-electric power…
First is the environmental damage caused by dams. There are lots of studies documenting the effects of those currently in use. Some places are going so far as to remove some dams to allow the natural flow of water to return. (there are some in Northern California along the Klamath River)
Second - There are already too many claims on the water that comes from our mountains. By the time it gets to us, it is barely a stream.
There are systems being tested right now that use the oceanic tides for power generation. That’s a great idea for San Diego. This along with solar and wind generated power don’t use our non-renewable natural resources. We need to be energy independent.
Wouldn’t it be nice, as the rest of the state is experiencing rolling blackouts next summer, we would be unaffected?
Comment by Lori from Mission Beach — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
Lori and Virgina:
It is imperative that we get off coal for energy production. It’s more important than changing our fuel for automobiles, switching all of our lightbulbs to CFLs and any other thing you can think of. By not using coal, we can turn global warming around. Check out this guy http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.asp?showID=13667. It’s so nice to know there are other people out there interested in energy.
Comment by Lorelei — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 1:23 pm
On Tuesday, February 26, 2008 @ 10:22 pm, fishfinger wrote “Your and idiot…”.
Hey fishfinger — Your and idiot, so there!
As far as William Buckley goes, he was just an evil jerk. “The National Review defended the Vietnam War, opposed civil rights legislation and once declared that “the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail.”" He’d also go on about how great Joe McCarthy was. Holy Moly, what an incredible creep he was.
Comment by goodguy — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Fishfinger: “Environazis”? Come on, now. OK, you’re a conservative I take it — shall we refer to you as a right-wing redneck?
Look, if you really want to make a point, you’d succeed a hell of a lot better to refrain from name-calling and generalizing people with whom you don’t agree. Instead, most of your posts sound like the usual echo-chamber tripe.
That’s not what William F. Buckley — a true, intelligent and thoughtful conservative, something most of his successors are not — would do. He won arguments not by lowering himself, but solid arguments and a keen grasp of the English language. You should take a lesson from him.
(And yes, I see people have called you names in response, and that’s not right either.)
Comment by Vriendje — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
WFB was a gracious & stately gentleman, and a Deep Thinker. He was also incredibly myopic, a profound hypocrite, and wilfully ignorant. The crackpot Right he helped midwife got completely rid of the former & used the latter as a starting point. You kids want a real treat, go to Andrew Sullivans blog, scroll down to today @ 1.40 PM- WFB on his program, getting blown completely out of the water by Noam Chomsky, over Viet Nam & the underlying motivations of much of US foriegn policy. Bill is oblivious, of course.
Having seen VN up close & personal, and a few other hellholes which were unfortunate enough to earn the Empires “interest”, I can only say that Bill was wrong early & often. And I genuinely liked the guy, growing up in NYC back then: au h2o/64, you know……leafed for his brothers bid for Mayor…
Sadly, theres no car crashes, so the dipfishs will have it sail over their heads……
Comment by mutt — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
is imperative that we get off coal for energy production. It’s more important than changing our fuel for automobiles, switching all of our lightbulbs to CFLs and any other thing you can think of.
Oh Lorelei, you are so right about coal. It is the single biggest thing we could do. Not only is coal a huge villain in global warming but it is madly destructive when it is mined. Right now in the southeastern United States entire mountaintops are blasted off and dumped in the stream valley to mine coal.
Comment by Virginia M — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
It was many years ago it was apparent that the aboriginal (we’ll use the umbrella term Palestinians) had two options in what Ill call Greater Israel: flee or die. Seemed obvious enough. It was years later when I found that, not only was that the case, it was the case since Herzl formulated modern Zionism in the late 1800’s. “We shall have to spirt the penniless population across the border.”- meaning out of the proposed Zionist state. Of course, Herzl was a lot more humane about this theft than, say, the US, South Africa, two other “settler states” were, or what Israel would later become. He proposed getting them all jobs- elsewhere. After all, the rational went- they wernt as attached to the land- where they could trace back family histories for centuries- as were the Zionist settlers, who just showed up. Right.
Ben Gurion was made of sterner stuff- no outsourcing for HIM. “In each attack, a decisive blow should be struck, resulting in the destruction of homes and the expulsion of the population”, When indeed, after a massive terror campaign- part of the ‘48 War-that was made to happen, Ben Gurion said- “Palestinian Arabs have only one role left- to flee”. Damn, I said, when I read that…..
And after the ‘48 War, all mention & memory of the Palestinian population were tossed down the memory hole, in true Winston Smith manner. While Ben Gurion & Herzl’s words are, um, disappeared, we have Golda Meir saying, after the War- “It was not as though there was a Palestinian people considering itself a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took thier country away from them. They did not exist.”
But they DID, and they DO.
Close to 400 villages were razed then, and Palestinian homes and lands “legally” declared abandoned, & given over to European settlers.( Just as Indian lands were declared “empty” and & given over to European settlers. Ah, well….they wern’t as attached to the land as WE are- wheres the cities? Wheres the coal mines? Wheres the dumps? Just shows ya how little they cared for it)
And a campaign to dehumanize the natives, break them, terrorize them, & make them disappear was undertaken by Israel, just as it was undertaken by every settler country of the 19th & 20th centuries.
We’ve solved our Indian “problem”. Israel was born too late to use mass murder, so they use slow murder, theft, & overwhelming force.
Various Palestinians fight in different ways. Its useful to understand the tactical considerations behind the early 70’s a/c hyjackings: the world was able to ignore the horrifying repression being visited upon the Palestinians, as some patriots are wont to do, they bought it up in a way that couldnt be ignored.
Beat a dog long enough & it will bite ANYBODY. I refuse to let the beatER declare the beatEE inherently vicious.
Im not interested in starting a big discussion here- its like abortion or the notion of private firearms ownership- you either get it or you dont. But I would suggest people who are interested look a lot deeper into the history of the Israeli State, the history of US support, and what groups like AIPAC- to whom Obama quite publically swore fealty- say about Palestinian humanity. Short answer: nothing.
I have ZERO idea what to do about this, none at all, other than to say I do not want US helicopters, cluster bombs, artillery, ammo, or any other tools of war given to them. Nothing.
Thats not likely to happen. So- an idiot, intractable mess, the Palestinians dehumanzed by generations of beatings, the Israelis dehumanized by beating them, for generations. No good can come of it as long as the US funds this settler state.
But, Professor von Mutt! I hear you exclaim- arent they the only Democracy in the Middle East? Well, if your notion of democracy includes aparthieide, torture, no due process, group punishment, the denial of the most basic rights, zero security in property and effects- in other words, if you use a Cheneyist definition of democracy, I guess it is. So what?
Prof. von Mutt.
Comment by mutt — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
Hi Mutt: I only heard part of your response to my pro-Israeli conversation with Stacy today because I went through an area where the radio doesn’t come in so well. But, I heard you say that I need to read some pro-Palistinian books. If you could recommend one, which one would it be? I sincerely doubt that I will change my mind about how its our duty to protect the Israeli’s, but I’m open to reading a book.
Comment by Lorelei — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 6:27 pm
Lorelei, It is NOT our duty tp protect Israel. They are the nuclear power over there in the middle east. They can take care of themselves.
Haven’t we given enough money to foreign countries? When will some country give us money? (I said give, not loan) Why don’t some of those countries we have given money to pay us back?
Sorry, I’m not buying it.
Comment by nobody special — Wednesday, February 27, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
fishfinger said “No body wants to burn coal except maybe the many thousands that depend on it for a living. Like Coal miners etc.”
Sure dude they are all ‘dying’ to work there.
I do agree that hydro-electric power is one of the least intrusive ways of generating power, but we need more than one source and using the naturally occurring forces are the best way. If people wanted, they can become independent of the BIG ENERGY by generating their own power, using solar and wind power and for me that is the best solution.
Comment by Lori from Mission Beach — Thursday, February 28, 2008 @ 7:57 am
i was hoping you would ask me that, Lorelei. Im not any sort of scholar on the subject, just an observer of….jeez, more decades than I care to admit. The book Id recommend as a starting point is a virtual doorstop- Chomsky’s “Fateful Triangle: Palestine, Israel, and the United States”. Its about 25 years old, readily available, used, at Amazon.
Im not a devotee of Chomsky, but I have read more than a few of his books. You will note virtually ALL the criticisms leveled at him are either personal attacks, or misrepresented statements of his position, which are then attacked.
The advantage of using a 25 year old book as a starting point is you can see how things developed from there, & gauge if he is correct on certain things. Its also footnoted in detail, makes use of original documents & sources, which can be independantly verified, & has a king hell bibliography.
Or you may look to Edward Said, or you may look to the many- many- pro Palestinian Israeli writers who are published in Haaretz, etc. Unlike the US, this debate is very broad in Israel.
For many years I got weekly updates of articles by a DC based group called Mid East Review, which featured a lot of secular Palestinian writers. You may try googlin MER & look into its library. The fellow who founded it is a chap named Bruzonski, (sp?) who was, for a time, a high level offical in the World Jewish Congress. No Jabotinski style Zionist tho, hence his course.
I once had tea with a very tiny old lady, in her 80’s, a Founding Mother of the State of Israel. She was a member of a anti brit, anti Arab terror gang, like the Stern Gang, - European Communists, back then. She was her groups armourer. I looked at her, she was barely taller than a Enfield rifle. Ah, yes, she said:” I could fix and accurize long guns, but I became a master with the pistol. ” Indeed. A gal after my own heart, that one.
She was a terrorist, pure & simple, and had zero qualms about stating it. Its how the country was founded, just like this one. For her part, she was ambigous about what Israel had become. I was honored to be in her presence.
And Im honored you asked the question…..
Comment by mutt — Thursday, February 28, 2008 @ 8:39 am
Hi Mutt: Although I’m a militant pro-Israeli, credit-card carrying Jewish-American princess, (jeez, i’m just full of stereotypes today), I’m always happy to look at other points of view. I’ll buy that book and get back to you when I’m finished reading it. Thanks!
Comment by Lorelei — Thursday, February 28, 2008 @ 10:12 am
OK Fishfinger, one more comment to you, not because you’re not offensive, but because you asked a relatively intelligent question:
“Why is it then that we have had the threat of rolling power outages and the like for the last two summers? The Mexi plants are going to run their plants no matter who uses it. Stake 2 and 3 alerts the last two summers. That is what I remember. More people living and moving here means we need more power. Why don’t the enviro nazi’s let is build more dams and then we could have clean water power ….all we want.”
It has to do with supply and demand, not transmission, which is what the Sunrise PowerLink is.
Comment by Lorelei — Thursday, February 28, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
We can generate power here without smokestacks. We can generate electricity with natural gas. There are modern natural gas generators (such as the one that supplies power to UCSD) which do not pollute much and are not unsightly.
The power company has a strong bias AGAINST decentralized power because they see it as a threat to their market dominance. Did you know that IBM refused to bid on the contract to build the Darpanet (precursor to the Internet) because they said it couldn’t be done? (They didn’t want it to be done. They forsaw the threat to their market dominance)
Others did bid on it and it was done and the rest is history.
Comment by Virginia M — Thursday, February 28, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
No fishfinger, again you are incorrect, we have lots of choices. Especially when it comes to new technologies. We have geo-thermal out in the desert that can be tapped. We have the ocean right here in our own back yard, and we have lots of sunshine. We don’t need to depend on coal or natural gas, or as of now, we can lessen our use. We have to get these other technolgies to the place where the masses can afford them.
Lori is correct. Miners don’t just die from accidents in mines, they also die long, slow, painful deaths from black lung disease. No one should have to mine coal, not here or in China.
A huge problem is that in many of the mining areas there is no other industry so miners don’t have any where else to go. For these reasons, they are tied to mining. It’s up to us and our government to provide some sort of assistance to bring in other cleaner industries.
Let’s get our government to offer incentives to companies who bring manufacturing back to the good ‘ol U.S.
Comment by Lorelei — Thursday, February 28, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
We will have solar. It will happen. Will it happen after we have built a stupid ugly expensive powerline through our world class desert park? That is up to us.
Comment by Virginia M — Thursday, February 28, 2008 @ 1:44 pm