Coffee, Tea, or Me?

I was a featured speaker, along with Congressman Bob Filner,  at a “Coffee Party” event held Sunday in North Park. In the event that you are unaware, The Coffee Party  is a liberal response to “The Tea Party”, of course minus the yahoos, cretins, imbeciles, and bigots that comprise the tea baggers. It was a nice group of folks, actually, if anything, too nice, at least in my opinion.

Naturally a couple of baggers showed up to protest the protesters and one of them actually had a bullhorn and one of those signs that I’ve only seen on television, you know, the one that has a picture of Obama and Hitler  side-by-side. (Apparently while I was looking elsewhere, Obama has gone from a commie to a fascist almost overnight.) Local Fox TV news was on hand as well. Anway, while Filner was being interviewed on the sidewalk in front of the venue, bullhorn boy (here he  is after a brief , but annoying ad) was shouting from 6 feet away “Filner is afraid to meet the voters!!” ( odd when you consider that, well, Filner was in fact meeting the voters. )

While this sideshow was getting most of the attention, there was another tea bagger, sans bullhorn, who was patiently explaining to an attentive lib how being spat upon by hippies upon returning from ‘Nam was what awakened his political activism. If true, his was possibly the only real authentic case of spat-upon-vets yet to surface.

And, of course, that’s the problem with these dolts: they just make shit up and pass it along as divine truth: Obama’s a Muslim, Obama’s not an American citizen, Obama’s gonna take your gun away, Sarah Palin is “a breath of fresh air”, a dirty hippie spit on me, Newt Gingrich is “brilliant”, Dick Cheney is not a blood-sucking war criminal, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Meanwhile, the nice guys, the coffee partiers, were actually passing around “civility pledges” inside the venue, vowing to treat with respect even those lie-spewing fear mongers who were littering the sidewalk out front. WTF? Why treat respectfully the very people that already think you’re a bunch of limp-wristed pansies? If you’ve ever tried to reason with an attacking Doberman, you get my point. The baggers apparently have no qualms about stifling respectful dialogue, given that their holy tome is a crayon-scrawled screed called “Arguing with Idiots”  written by the odious Glenn Beck.

Anyway, what do I know? Maybe the play-nice tactic will eventually work. It’s certainly worth a try. The next time some tea bagger accosts you on the street, screaming bogus “truths” in your face, try just sticking a flower in the barrel of his bullhorn.

46 thoughts on “Coffee, Tea, or Me?”

  1. Thanks Stacy for the news about the Coffee Party meeting with Filner. I’m with the Ramona Coffee Party, we tried to set up a meeting with Hunter — could only get his campaign manager — meeting to be at 1:30 with only up to 5 members of our group allowed.

    The baggers will be out in full-force here in Ramona on Thursday, just deliberating what is the best approach — ignore them & deny them oxygen? or come out in full force with counter demonstration? or take lots of pics & report on their activities objectively on a blog or other media — what do you think?

  2. Hello Stacy,
    Thanks again for speaking at the event.

    I thought you might this amusing.

    Below is the e-mail being forward by the guy who had the Obama/Hitler sign.

    ——————————————————-
    All,

    Only about 5-6 (Tea Party) people showed up for the Filner talk. 3-4 went inside and Clair and I stayed outside. KUSI was there so there should be a report tonight on KUSI.

    Frank from OB Rag gave the third degree when I went inside about “civility”. So I decided to stay outside and went back to my car to retrieve my sign comparing the racism of Obama’s church to the racism of Nazism. I was also yelling some things. The management of Queen Bees did not like it much and tried to tell me that I had no right to protest on the sidewalk in front of the building and called the police.

    I mentioned to them that it was too bad that they did not have Nazi youth that could come beat me up and put me behind bars for exercising my 2nd amendment rights. I was not thinking that they, in fact, do have such Nazi-like street thugs and shortly afterwards a thug showed up, threatened me, wrenched the sign out of my hands and broke the handle in the process. Clair’s husband pointed out that the guy was probably SEIU and it may very well be true. I suspect they called them when the police were slow in showing up.

    The police were just pulling up, when it happened. There were several witnesses and I tried to get him arrested, but the police seemed to be biased against us. They told me that I would have to sue him for the cost of the yardstick (69 cents). We did not get video of the attack, but we do have the names, video and photos of the police and the attacker. Would be nice, if we coud get someone to investigate and find out, if he is SEIU. I will be putting the photo of the guy and video of him and the police on the Internet.

    Roger
    —————————————————-
    Apparently the stick on Roger Odgen’s Hitler/Obama was broken into little pieces. A guy was trying to get to his car and told Roger to shut-up and get out of his face. Roger continued and that is when the stick was broken.

    Roger and his cohorts surmised that the culprit was a SERVICE EMPLOYEES INTERNATIONAL UNION thug.

    I’m impressed the Coffee Party could speed dial the SEIU to send over a thug in a matter of seconds.

    In fact, Tony, the guy that broke the Roger’s stick , is a poet and an artist who was there to read a poem at the event before the Coffee Party.

    Roger also mentions exercising his 2nd Amendment Rights. Funny, I didn’t see Roger bearing arms.

    Frank of the O.B Rag apparently gave Roger the 3rd degree or was it the 2nd degree on civility?

  3. “Obama has gone from a commie to a fascist almost overnight.”

    And the next day he is a Marxist. Which is funny, as I seriously doubt these people even know what a real fascist, communist, marxist really is… but anyways.

  4. Glad you are up & running, Stacy. I, too, am bored by bright eyed sniverals telling me to be polite to the teatard/torture demographic.
    Its not like these are honest people with a different take on something, they are defectives, with us forever, ever willing to be used as a pro stupidity chorus by anyone who buys them hats or buttons.
    Thanks for pointing out that entire revolting “they spit on us” whinw from these clowns, too.
    I was there. Never happened, as I wrote about if ya check my link.
    Im of course sympathetic to the coffee clatches, but Im really not interested in being polite to creeps who cheer on death, destruction, and torture from a safe distance.
    Glad your back, man. Should we allow some small hope you’ll be back on the air, or should we save such naiflike behavior to clap for Tinkerbelle?
    Hey!!! Are YOU our Tinkerbelle?
    CLAP, Everybody, CLAP!!!!!!!

  5. So glad you are back to the blog. I miss the radio show, but this’ll do. The Baggers are so passionate and so misguided. I watched the Fox 5 story. The host said things got heated and then shows Roger yelling at people and no Coffee Filterers really mixing it up to show things got heated. The hose should have said… “There was a coffee party in North Park…..where Roger, the loon with the Hitler sign got heated over what he perceives to be his country being destroyed”.

  6. On April 24 the Tea Party in Ramona will host Duncan Hunter Sr. at the Main Stage theater, 12 Noon, 6th and Main Streets. I am thinking that we should all be there to thank Duncan Hunter for his stewardship as our Congressman 1981~2009. Some things that we can thank him for:
    $10T of National Debt
    12 million illegal aliens
    2 unfunded wars, $1T borrowed so far
    Tax cuts for the rich
    Our 3rd world economy.

    Thank you Duncan Hunter!

  7. Tell Duncan I said “Hi!” Tell him I still own guns, so’s that he’ll still like me. Then ask him how he lost his soul along the way.

  8. Sorry Stacy, I’m thinking the flower in the bullhorn idea probably won’t work. It’s a nice idea though..

  9. Wait, Duncy Jr. wouldn’t go to a coffee party for his constituents, yet he will go to a tea party event? And WTH mainstage? What a douche move. I don’t care if they pay….why is it okay to appease the right, but it’s impossible to sell advertising on lefty radio? It’s not the message. The message on righty radio is always wrong.

  10. Yes, the ideal of the Coffee Party is to try to be civil, even to “lie-spewing fear mongers”. Not all Tea Party people are that way. Some will engage in a civil discussion of the issues. But certainly not all. When civility fails and the other person only wants to spew lies and insults, the response is to just ignore the person and carry on. There’s work to be done and there’s no point wasting time trying to talk with people that refuse to talk with you.

  11. we should be out in force at all these events
    where are all the save klsd mates
    we actually got out there
    in quite a mass for sd standards
    duncan hunter should have to drive by our signs
    he is your rep too right stacy

  12. The idea was that Filner should have had a Town Hall to discuss Obamacare, not hold a Tea Party event. Susan Davis, we can say at least, had the heuvos to do that, Filner did not.

    What Tony Kranz said is totally untrue. I did not approach him. He approached me and started ranting, then charged me and assaulted me. Why should I be angry with some passerby, who I did not know and also did not know his political opinions. It does not make any sense at all. That he was provoked by my sign and attacked me does make sense.

    I have read the foundation books on Black Liberation Theology, the doctrine of Obama’s church of 20 years, and it can be described as a kind of racist Black Christian Identity religion, not unlike, but reversed, to the Nazi Christian Identity Movement that some say Timothy McVeigh was associated with. There are parallels in the racist doctrines of both.

    If you go to this link and scroll down, there are many disturbing racist qoutes from the foundation books on BLT.

    http://groups.google.com/group/obamas-black-nationalism/web/obama—the-parallels-to-nazism

    My point is the same standard should be applied to all. Obama was in a KKK-like group for 20 years and that should disqualify him for the presidency. We don’t want a confirmed racist for president and the Democrats should not get a pass on that.

    I have had a hobby interest in German language and history for over 30 years and have been to holocaust memorials and museums all over Europe. I know what I am talking about and was shocked when I found out that the doctrine of Obama’s church is essentially the same perverted Christian doctrine that the Nazis forced on the evangelical churches in the Third Reich. Many German ministers went to concentration camps rather than accept it, but Obama embraced something similar with open arms. It is very sad but true.

  13. Yeah, well I missed it so I couldn’t say. I went out for a smoke after Filner spoke. I saw the police but didn’t get any info from anybody. You have to admit, the bullhorn was a bit much given how close you were to people. You might call it a provacation, no? I did speak to a woman who attended the event, a local activist but not a member of the Coffee Party. She has protested the Tea Party rallies in the past. I ask her if she was disruptive, and she said “You betcha!”

  14. It is not exactly unknown for protests to be provocative. Who notices you, if you are not provocative? Filner did not exactly treat us respectfully by not having an open town hall and even this event he wanted to pack with his supporters. If you give respect you are more likely to get respect.

    This photo below was taken a few seconds before Tony Kraus attacked me. You can see that he is red in the face and veins bulging out of his neck. He was angry. I was somewhat amused by his rant. I did not block his path or put the sign in his path. He was angry about what was on the sign.

    http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/a/f/b/600_14311483.jpeg

    The sign is designed to provoke in order to draw people’s attention to the Nazi-like racism of the doctrine of Obama’s church of 20 years. I have found that I do not have to do anything except display the sign for people to go ballistic. He is a lot bigger than I am also. I am not exactly a macho man and am not in the habit of physically provoking anyone, especially when they are that much bigger than I am. No matter what I have on the sign, it does not justify an attack on my person. Free speech is free speech and in fact what I have on the sign is a valid comparison, considering the racism of the doctrine of Obama’s church, although few people know about it.

  15. ah yes, the 1st amendment and freedom of speech … what is speech and what is harassment? does it give someone the right to blast their voice via bullhorn a few feet from one’s face on a public sidewalk?

    then we have the nuisance and disturbing the peace laws and ordinances …

    but bottom line … the 1st amendment does allow one to make an ass of himself or herself … so wave that flag, bullhorn boy … if you want to win any support in the public square, you should behave intelligently and articulate your points with documented facts …

    good day.

  16. To all: sorry about the lag in having comments posted on this site. I’m getting spammed to death by Levitra drug pushers and ringtone merchants with lame messages like “Really enjoy your writing. I will pass on to my friends.”, Lola@genericdrugs.com

  17. BTW: I’m as confrontational as can be, one Arizona driver short of a felony road rage incident. I was more amused Sunday, as opposed to outraged.

  18. I can be excitable, but I think you can see from the expression on my face that I am not angry. I just think that I have a message that ought to be publicized. People don’t think that a black can be racist, but that in itself is a prejudice. Obama comes from the racist Black Nationalist tradition of Elijah Muhammad, Malcolm X and Louis Farrakhan, not the integrationist tradition of MLK. Most Americans, however, unfortunately do not have a clue what Black Nationalism is all about. The media and politicians are too politically correct or even too intimidated by the likes of Louis Farrakhan to explain it to the public. Obama had a private meeting last fall with Farrakhan in the White House, which would be approximately like Bush having a private meeting with Tom Metzger in the WH.

  19. It is sad when we begin to focus more on the sideshow then the substance, but that’s where the discourse is at.

    Mr Ogden may be better served by bringing his concerns regarding Black Liberation Theology to the actual church of Black Liberation Theology, rather than to a meeting of liberal activists, as much fun as it is to “connect the dots” Glenn Beck style.

    not to mention, Roger’s misplaced concern.

    If Mr Obama is an advocate for “BLT” he is a rather poor one. It’s been a long time since we’ve had so many African-Americans unemployed (record levels, double that of general population) incarcerated, in poor health, dying of AIDS (#1 killer of black women 29-44)…

    It brings me no joy to acknowledge that black folk in the US have seldom been in the tough straights they are in now – in thrall to debt, worse education, worse health, etc. This is sort of the OPPOSITE of liberation theology — and if Obama is secretly practicing some sort of politics which bring people out of poverty, and reverse these ills, apparently, only Roger knows about it, because neither me nor Bruce Dixon or Glenn Ford at BAR has seen it.

    Mr Ogden has his rights to free speech, which clearly includes the subset of protected speech called “Stupid Speech”.

    Kudos to Filner, Frank Gormlie, Stacy Taylor, and all. I think both a full -throated rejection of the hate-filled speech, an engagement with the rational folks, and peaceful progress ‘damn the torpedoes’ is the logical three-fold path of the “Coffee Party” and like mindeds.

    Mike Copass
    Clairemont

  20. Great post and comments!

    Stacy, it’s great to have you back in some form of media; you’ve been missed.

    Overall I am tired of the insipid bickering and “gotcha” politics that is seemingly being practiced by most everyone today. I think we’re all a bit on edge because of the poor economy and instead of making the best of bad situation we end up acting like children suffering from a case of the “but MOOOM’s.” So many people are out of work, underemployed, working with a paycut, struggling to keep a business afloat, etc. and we are arguing over a broken sign…

    Coffee Party? Tea Party? I prefer neither but I welcome the exchange of ideas! Perhaps we all can come with some good ideas on how to fix things, even locally….it has to start somewhere.

    Is Obama a closet racist? I would say no, however, he is certainly entitled to his own opinion and I don’t have a problem with that provided he doesn’t advocate creating internment camps for us crackers or other non-blacks.

    I hope that made some sense and now it’s time for my cold medicine!

  21. You made perfect sense. The economy blows and people are pissed. Where’s the pressure on the banks to keep people in their homes?

  22. Take another hit of fresh air.

    I am so tired of everything; did you know that every galaxy has a black hole in the center, in some cyclically form. Which means something I think? It is the best news I have heard in a long time.

  23. Trisha, Obama may not seem to be a racist, but the doctrine of his church is extremely racist and anti-American. There is such a thing as deception and David Duke said 30-40 years ago to put a nice face on extremism, but even Duke was not the first to promote that idea.

    Obama called Jeremiah Wright his spiritual guide. Wright is the foremost minister in the US that has promoted BLT and he said in a televised interview that it is the doctrine that he taught in his church. The racism it teaches has parallels to the Nazi version of Christianity (Positives Christentum) that was forced on churches in the Third Reich and is still in use today in the US by the Nazi Christian Identity Movement. This is why I draw the comparison between Obama and Hitler. He has similar racist religious beliefs and not one has confronted him directly with this fact. He blamed it all on Jeremiah Wright.

    I am not the first to notice this. It’s in Black and White in the books on BLT. Father Andrew Greeley, a sociologist at the U. Chicago, called BLT a Nazi mentailty. David Horowitz calls BLT “Afro-Nazism”. I think any objective person that reads the books on BLT can recognize that it is racist and seditious. It teaches that America and white society are satanic and will be destroyed.

    You don’t have to read Obama’s mind. If a white man were in the KKK for 20 years, you would assume he is a klansman and not there merely for social reasons.

  24. I was there and Roger was odious. Bob Filner goes anywhere there are more than 2 people. He goes out of his district quite often, spoke in Rancho Bernardo from an invite. Town Hall, Davis Town Hall? Where obnoxious tea bag types shouted down every single question, shouted down every single answer from Davis. Completely disrespectful, counter productive and vile. All dressed up in thier flag clothing, them there patriots just love the flag gear. Had no problem with bush trashing the country for 8 long years, creating the deficit, endless war based on lies, and now tea bags want us to believe they care about deficit? Well, I call BS! They are racist slime, period the end. Their signs speak volumes about what they believe.

  25. Barbara, “odious” is ignoring the fact that you have a racist and seditious president.

    Trisha – Obama may have a right to accept a racist and seditious religion with parallels to Nazism, but such a person does not have a right to be president. Being president is a position of trust, not a right, and we cannot trust someone that was in such a group.

    However, the really “odious” thing is that the media and politicians ignore the documented fundamental racism of Obama’s belief at TUCC. Obama blamed it all on his “crazy” minister, when he knows very well what BLT is all about, genocidal racism and extreme Anti-Americanism. That means his speech after ths scandal on race relations was a lie of cosmic proportions.

    You guys are accusing Tea Partiers of being “racist” while actually supporting racism yourselves. Ironic and amusing, isn’t it? It think before this is over, you guys are going to give the term “blowback” a completely new meaning. Because the public is going to understand, sooner or later, that the President is a racist and bigot and you people tolerate that willingly.

  26. Ah, wingnuts. sorry I missed the freak show.
    But a correction: Its the Duncan Hunter DyNasty.
    Dunkie Sr’s halfwit followers annointed his thuggish son, last year. Evidently, his belief the Earf is 6k years old was big mumbo to the teatards who elected him.
    But they re a credulous bunch, and easily frightened by boogiemen. As we see from prime example Roger, above.

  27. Mutt, the wing nuts are those that — in willful ignorance — support a President that was in an extreme racist and seditious group for twenty years. That is well documented and your mindless blathering will not change the facts.

  28. I would like some specific examples of how exactly BLT is extremely racist and seditious, for one. I mean, examples from a source that isn’t Newsmax, or Human Events, Etc. Or from writers like David Horowitz.

    I also take issue with you lumping Malcolm X in with a black nationalist movement he later renounced. The man’s views changed dramatically by the time he died, but I also have no problems with the things he said when he was part of black nationalism.

    Now, the church Obama attended for 20 years, was not BLT, but only founded on the ideals similar to BLT. And this is not by their own designation, but by the founder of BLT.

    JUst because a critic compares a church to Nazi Germany just by saying it’s so, doesn’t actually make it so. Remember this before you ever EVER open your goddamned stupid piehole. The NAZIS f-ing killed people. Lots of them. This is not to be disputed. Whether or not there are similarities is moot. Once BLT starts killing people, you got your comparison.

    Your signs are disgusting and do cause people to react possibly violent. But this is because they are comparing something that actually happened to something you and some others have cooked up in your heads as something that may potentially happen.

  29. Oki-Doke, fair enough. Most people will not seriously look at the facts that may contradict their pre-conceived notions. Here is the link to a clip of Wright saying the doctrine of his church is based on BLT (not something similar, but BLT) and a number of qoutes from the foundation books on BLT by James H. Cone.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8IEqD0GAKY

    And here is a page that has a summary and about 80 qoutes, including the ones in the clip above with the books and page numbers where they can be found. You will note in the first qoute that even Cone admits that many people find his theology racist and even Nazi-like. His defense was that of Malcolm X, who just said that it is difficult for white devils to recognize that they are the devil.

    http://groups.google.com/group/obamas-black-nationalism/web/obama—the-parallels-to-nazism

    Note that there is also no redemption for white liberals.

  30. hey, Wingnut roger- your, uh, research take you into dispensationalists? or other flocks of white loons?
    Wright is SUCH small potatoes….but its the sorta thing you can, um, spook the teatard crowd with, I suppose.
    Frankly, i dont trust anybody who claims some skygod tells him what to think.
    What brand of bible freak are you?

  31. Father Greeley, cited by Roger as proof of B.L.T.’s fascistic ways, was a big Obama supporter. Horowitz, also cited, is , in my opinion, a McCarthite creep. There’s so much stuff out there on the internet about Cone, the origins of the movement, etc. Find out for yourself what you think of B.L.T….and Obama’s connection…or lack of same….with it.

  32. Father Greeley has an excuse. He is now 82 years old and maybe a little senile by now. What’s your excuse for supporting a man that had a Nazi-like racist religion for 20 years? You can read the qoutes directly from the books on BLT.

    What I am saying is not that Obama is a Facist or Nazi, but that he had a racist, seditious religion for 20 years. Whether that is acceptable to you or a by now senile Father Greeley, because you have gotten caught up in his charisma, you should not force the rest of us to accept the risk that he may very well be a believer in this Koresh-like religion. We don’t want to have a super-sized Waco on the Potomac.

    Last October he invited Louis Farrakhan for a little tète a tète in the White House. Farrakhan is as cuckoo as they come. See this clip, especially the last part, where Farrakhan has a spaceship abduction and receives a message from God.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fcf8Z7pzjw

  33. What may be more important is that Father Geeley is a prominent figure in Chicago. He knows Obama personally. It would not be socially acceptable for him to personally oppose Obama there. David Horowitz called BLT “Afro-Nazism”. Anyone that reads the doctrine and has even a bit of objectivity can see that it is racist against whites and it fact it has parallels to certain Nazi doctrines.

    Try putting the shoe on the other foot and imagine a white president had been in a church that talked about whites as being the minisfestation of God and non-whites as being satanic and to be confronted as the Antichrist.

    Things have gone so far out of balance that we now have a President, who has made hating whitey and hating America the central tenets of his religion. You may want to ignore it, but if people can’t apply the same standard fairly to all no matter what their color there will eventually be violence on a large scale to correct this type of injustice.

  34. I would if fishy’s name weren’t Gabriel or something. Plus, we’ve seen both of their mugs. Fish standing over a bloody mess on the deck of a sportfishing boat and this guy holding up the Nazi comparison sign. Not the same dude.

  35. I just want people to know that there is extreme racism and hate for America in Obama’s background that many people sense but do not quite understand and that it has certain parallels to the racism of the Nazi state religion that was forced on german Evangelical chruches in the Third Reich. I assume that not everyone that reads this will be a rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth partisan that cares more about their side winning and implementation of some unrealistic deceptive fairy tale of a world utopia than they care about the country as a whole and their own well-being. You may think that you will get the fairy tale that the Black Messiah is painting for you, but what you will end up getting from the Black Messiah and his disciples will be a holy mess.

  36. Shut the f**k up Roger! I repeat, they killed people!!!!! You can dig deep enough and find something wrong with everyone’s background.

    NO links. I want you to tell me exactly how our president is anything like the 3rd Reich. What religion is being forced upon us? Tell me. You need to get a grip, man. How the hell can you even think with all that crazy rattling around in your head?

  37. roger if you replace obama with rush beck hannity palin bush
    chenney boner cantor and change the black to white then it makes perfect since but that was so 8 years ago i dont know anyone who thinks obama is a black
    Messiah except tea partiers

  38. Forget the Tea totalers, Coffee Party?

    Without that liberal Franklin Roosevelt doing away with Prohibition we couldn’t enjoy a cold one after a day’s work.

    Left to the world the Republican Taliban would have us live we couldn’t even have a beer.

    A toast to FDR and the beer party!

  39. Heard following comment on CSPAN:

    Why is it that Right wing hate groups that openly train with guns, and who openly call for the over-throw of the federal government (President) should be called militias?

    Why are they not more accurately referred to as domestic terrorists?

    They engage in the same behaviour that foreign terrorist groups do, yet we refer to them with a label that disguises their violent intent.

    Semantics are Very Powerful –
    Let’s call these groups what they really are –
    Domestic Terrorists, and deal with them accordingly.

  40. Semantics:

    I get very confused by the words:
    Molest and Rape

    re: some of the horrific cases of children and young people being attacked and/or raped and/or killed –

    the media often refers to criminal as being
    “child molestors” and referring to the victims as
    being”molested”

    Example:
    When the media referred to John Gardner’s 13 year old victim from a few years ago, some years ago,
    they said she was “molested”

    To me that sounds like fondling or touching a child.

    Later they used the word “Rape” when referring to
    what Gardner did to this girl.

    Roman Polansky is said to “have had sex with a
    13 year old girl” which sounds consensual
    to me. They forget to mention that he drugged
    and raped her.

    Let’s insist that the media to tell the horrific truth –
    These kids were not “molested”
    They were raped.

    Let’s not refer to the criminals as child “molesters”
    but as the child rapists that they are.

    This will help us understand the true brutality
    of their crimes.